I find this stuff fascinating too. I am going to order this Hayes book; it's been on my radar too and I don't see it having a US release date yet. I've read both of those Ilgunas books, and yours of course (my favorite of them all, duh) and I never get tired of thinking about it. Actually, I DO get tired, but only tired of the bullshit cult of private land ownership. That whole idea of "intrusion" really chafes but it is such a thing. Then throw in the aisle's worth of surveillance camera bullshit at the Costco and ... don't even get me started.
Absolutely the same! So tired of the cult and how blindly it's accepted and enforced. And how many hundreds if not thousands of years it's gone on, so unnecessary except for greed and craving for power.
I think you'd like the book, though I personally had to take it slow because I found it really upsetting. In a good way, though, because he goes straight for the gut of the matter repeatedly, and traces back many massive private landholdings in England to their original enclosure, and how the land was used as a commons beforehand and removed from the commons, often violently. He touches briefly on the pseudo-privatization of public space in cities, too, though only *very* briefly. There's a lot more he could have included but I appreciated that mostly he tried to keep it focused on massive swathes of open nature and the effect of closing it away from most people has.
Did you see the movie HOSTILES with Christian Bale and Wes Studi and others? There's a scene near the end where they ride up into this beautiful mountain valley and there's no one around until this little group of horsemen ride up and this asshat is all, "Get off my land!" and Julia leaned over and said, "Well, you can tell they're in Montana now...."
I didn't but ARGH. Hal Herring always talks about how important private property is to people in Montana because so many are Scots-Irish and I'm always like, maybe, dude, but how about we investigate the roots of that and whether it's justified or not? Because let me tell you about the Scottish people who were forced to settle in Northern Ireland and then fled for America and how many centuries their lands had been taken and controlled at the whim of the English ...
I need to read all of these books because I need to think about this MORE. And more deeply. And from points of view other than my own. I've been an occasional trespasser for years, and only my husband's initial nervousness about it prompted me to think about WHY I do it.
I do it because fuck 'em. It's one thing if it's a goddamn yard. But a bunch of open land? I have plenty more vulgarities to express my disdain with, trust me.
You know what really gets me is the public land that's inaccessible because of corner rules -- one step more and you could be on public land, but that step crosses over an inch of private property. That's just freaking wrong. (I know, it's all wrong.)
I think you would really like The Book of Trespass, in that case. He doesn't shy away from the root issues, and how much of it is just a story we've somehow agreed to (he talks more about it as a word-spell, which I like).
He does a lot of drugs. That was also another difference, besides writing style and his actual trespassing. I appreciated how frank he was about it all without getting too caught up in literary descriptions of being high.
I found Debt to be a really interesting read. Not so much because it strongly convinced me of anything (although that was only a first read, and I do owe it some more time); but because it made me realize how stuck in my thoughts I was in that area. It gives alternate framings that, at least in my experience, really helped me re-index stuff I had taken for granted.
I am very tempted by Debt! I keep running into Graeber referenced in various economics discussions, though was daunted when the book arrived and it was so large ;) Seems important to prioritize it, though, since he's so fundamental to many people's thinking.
The Book of Trespass had a similar effect on me, by the way. It's ideas I already knew a fair bit about and was on board with, but, as you put it, made me realize how stuck my thoughts still are in that area.
I find this stuff fascinating too. I am going to order this Hayes book; it's been on my radar too and I don't see it having a US release date yet. I've read both of those Ilgunas books, and yours of course (my favorite of them all, duh) and I never get tired of thinking about it. Actually, I DO get tired, but only tired of the bullshit cult of private land ownership. That whole idea of "intrusion" really chafes but it is such a thing. Then throw in the aisle's worth of surveillance camera bullshit at the Costco and ... don't even get me started.
Absolutely the same! So tired of the cult and how blindly it's accepted and enforced. And how many hundreds if not thousands of years it's gone on, so unnecessary except for greed and craving for power.
I think you'd like the book, though I personally had to take it slow because I found it really upsetting. In a good way, though, because he goes straight for the gut of the matter repeatedly, and traces back many massive private landholdings in England to their original enclosure, and how the land was used as a commons beforehand and removed from the commons, often violently. He touches briefly on the pseudo-privatization of public space in cities, too, though only *very* briefly. There's a lot more he could have included but I appreciated that mostly he tried to keep it focused on massive swathes of open nature and the effect of closing it away from most people has.
Did you see the movie HOSTILES with Christian Bale and Wes Studi and others? There's a scene near the end where they ride up into this beautiful mountain valley and there's no one around until this little group of horsemen ride up and this asshat is all, "Get off my land!" and Julia leaned over and said, "Well, you can tell they're in Montana now...."
I didn't but ARGH. Hal Herring always talks about how important private property is to people in Montana because so many are Scots-Irish and I'm always like, maybe, dude, but how about we investigate the roots of that and whether it's justified or not? Because let me tell you about the Scottish people who were forced to settle in Northern Ireland and then fled for America and how many centuries their lands had been taken and controlled at the whim of the English ...
I need to read all of these books because I need to think about this MORE. And more deeply. And from points of view other than my own. I've been an occasional trespasser for years, and only my husband's initial nervousness about it prompted me to think about WHY I do it.
I do it because fuck 'em. It's one thing if it's a goddamn yard. But a bunch of open land? I have plenty more vulgarities to express my disdain with, trust me.
You know what really gets me is the public land that's inaccessible because of corner rules -- one step more and you could be on public land, but that step crosses over an inch of private property. That's just freaking wrong. (I know, it's all wrong.)
Grrrrr....
I think you would really like The Book of Trespass, in that case. He doesn't shy away from the root issues, and how much of it is just a story we've somehow agreed to (he talks more about it as a word-spell, which I like).
A word-spell! I like that. A curse, and we all perpetuate it with talismans and rituals and familiar patterns of thought.
yes!
I've been debating for literally months about ordering this from Blackwell's. Tipping point reached.
;)
He does a lot of drugs. That was also another difference, besides writing style and his actual trespassing. I appreciated how frank he was about it all without getting too caught up in literary descriptions of being high.
I found Debt to be a really interesting read. Not so much because it strongly convinced me of anything (although that was only a first read, and I do owe it some more time); but because it made me realize how stuck in my thoughts I was in that area. It gives alternate framings that, at least in my experience, really helped me re-index stuff I had taken for granted.
I am very tempted by Debt! I keep running into Graeber referenced in various economics discussions, though was daunted when the book arrived and it was so large ;) Seems important to prioritize it, though, since he's so fundamental to many people's thinking.
The Book of Trespass had a similar effect on me, by the way. It's ideas I already knew a fair bit about and was on board with, but, as you put it, made me realize how stuck my thoughts still are in that area.
Thanks!
I have Debt but haven't read it yet. Graeber's Bullshit Jobs was very enjoyable. His death was such a sad loss.
Agreed. So young and already he gave so much to change the way we perceive the systems we're in.