Important post, Antonia. Thank you. For the most part, I agree that our capacity "for both compassion and cruelty come not from any religious root but from those very centuries of suffering." I'm reading about the Middle Ages right now, however, and a great deal of cruelty and compassion did come from organized religion—us versus them. Perhaps this is because people believed they had to fight for a cause more than they trusted the transforming kindness of faith. There is no them, only us.
Yes, I agree with you. Especially when reading of the centuries of religion-related wars, it's hard to let go of that influence. This book is a little slippery to summarize, I think because it might be meant for college classrooms with a more overview perspective. In that section he's specifically talking about Dostoevsky's and others' claim that it was Russian Orthodoxy itself that created the Russian character, whereas the history of that church (says Kustanovich) is not strong in any kind of pastoral care or teaching (priests don't generally give sermons, and observance is strong on ceremony while light on content).
I do wonder sometimes about religious wars what the everyday foot soldier thought when he was having to fight. We have so little of that perspective throughout history, only the sanctioned narratives.
"Not “the government is spying on everyone” but an actual, targeted, individual tap. On your phone. Listening to your own private conversations. Now we have end-to-end encryption for the masses, and still my cousin in Moscow publicly posts her love for Ukraine and outrageously courageous critiques, calls to resist. “I can’t seem to come to my senses,” she writes. “I am still trying to find bits of optimism in myself.”"
I feel obligated to speak anyway. Back during the Iraq war I got targeted by a tap on the plain old telephone because apparently, I kept shooting my mouth off in opposition. There have been a lot of difficult surveillance issues since then.
When I was a child there was my family, for a time, where I was the abused child and I had to not say anything about it, lest I get murdered for my trouble.
🤍💛💙 Thanks for the like on Anne Helen's blog the other day.
In DC (or the vicinity) so one often has that creepy 'crosshairs between my shoulder blades' sensation if one is so venturesome to have 'wrong' opinions about foreign policy matters.
elm
my spidey sense has always served me well, especially when people tell me directly that i'm wrong
Yeah, I was. More peripheral now. (It's a multilayer issue.) Always an odd sensation when one strongly suspects the Russians are eyeballing one's minimal content, because why would they? But there it is (or was). (Shant wish to help them.)
Gets balanced or offset by all the people trying to find a way into talking people into killing the world.
I think given the long history of spying in the USSR, and the pre-Soviet states of tsars, suspecting a Russian government of spying on one's personal life isn't actually an outlier feeling.
Heh. Oh, well, this is more being on political blogs, which involves the usual political suspects in the US, plus being doxxed, etc., followed by the usual unofficial official surveillance (all of this taking place over a decade+), and then on top of that merely having opinions (just like I am doing here), apparently & suddenly one has attracted attention from the usual & unusual foreign suspects. (Why would they care? You'd think they'd have better things to do, so damn if I know.)
At the moment, someone is apparently, but rather obviously, (presumably thanks to the miracle of speech recognition) been listening in on my cell. When I have the chance, I play them lots of music. Most people (in the US) are in total denial about this kind of thing, just like they've been in total denial about the fact that the RF has basically been in the position of holding a gun to UKR's head since the USSR became the XSSR. (One false move and the RF pulls the trigger, or in this case, just ups and decides they can get away with it.) Likewise a lot of people were somehow (?) convinced that there was no threat of nuclear war, never mind every power with the bomb hung onto their bombs and kept them serviced and ready to use at any old moment.
It's not a big deal (or shouldn't be, goes the theory) for one particular individual in a world of both commercial and government mass surveillance, but it invariably creeps me the fuck out.
elm
the intersection of my excellent survival instincts and my excellent sense of people with the very unpleasant people who wallow in the stuff
This: "Poke back far enough and nearly everyone’s line has a history of suffering and oppression."
It speaks to our similarities rather than our differences. We've all been oppressed, we've all been the oppressor. That is the source from which compassion springs, if we let it.
"If we let it" is much of the key. So many use their own suffering as an excuse to inflict more on others. I keep going back to Rianne Eisler's book "Nurturing Our Humanity," and her point that authoritarianism cycles through society and home life -- people who grow up in authoritarian homes tend to support authoritarian society, and vice versa.
I still haven't read that, just kind of skipped to this more recent one! I heard a couple interviews with her about it and was impressed with the research in the book. Basically "we live in a domination paradigm both society-wide and in personal lives, but many societies in the past have lived in a partnership paradigm instead and we can get there again."
I love that image. I don't think that I can share any of my pictures (or spill any ink, for that matter) publicly, either. There are 15 or so old pictures sitting by my couch right now. Some of them I love. Some of them are best kept as a reminder of lessons learned. Mostly, I don't think that the public commons needs any input from me. Some thoughts are best kept to the digital and actual front porch, so to speak.
I know what you mean. I'm hesitant about it all. What is there, after all, that can be said about war or hardship or oppression that's in any way a new observation? 🧡
And whatever there is to be said just doesn't need to be said by me, should I even have the thought to begin with. The world is overstocked with white guys bloviating from the middle of America.
Well -- true. I mean, I know what you mean. But what the world is not overstocked with is people drawing us back to compassion and humanity, which is different from high-profile punditry. We all have our roles, or at least a role in our own lives. In any case, I appreciate your perspective!
Photo at the top is of the Church of the Transfiguration in Peredelkino just outside Moscow. Not sure if I'll share many more Russia photos but northwest Montana is like a vast ocean of gray and slush right now and even walking is blah.
"Half the city is fighting against the normalization of violence that is knocking on every door. War also tests us to see if we have even a touch of compassion for those sent here to murder.”"
I guess at it's most core, this is an issue of private property. Of wealth. Of something carved out. The deep seated desire to protect something/someones.
It is a very.... simplistic thing to say, but "the Russians started it" . They came into Ukraine. They launched a full scale invasion and hit civilian targets in the very first strike. It is despicable. I would argue it's not a "normalization of violence" , but rather a response to a horrible disruption.
I am horrified by the lack of leadership in the US and (most of) Europe. I will give major props to Mr Johnson and the UK parliament, showing true unity and leading out in front. The EU waited 72 hours to see if Ukraine had any resolve/resilience and then we saw the largest policy/spending shift in 75 years in a mere 72 hours. (I am also scared of any changes done during crisis as a general rule).
And by the way -- thank you! I have been feeling a bit frustrated at what feels like thin news reporting (aside from The Guardian, but their home page just might be better designed, giving me the impression of comprehensiveness). I was trying to think of who might be doing more reporting, and thought of Bellingcat but then forgot to go look.
I mean, I'd fight too. Aside from all the other issues, most people, I truly believe, don't want to live under a repressive authoritarian.
The brutal truth is that this war isn't..... "exciting". It's not good vs bad/west vs east. It's (in my opinion) a civil war (or a reverse civil war I guess? ). (To be clear I realize the russian/ukraine .... relationship is deeply nuanced and complicated and won't try todo it justice here).
The reporting has been pretty sparse indeed. I follow (almost exclusively) BBC and most of the reporting has been about staff migrating/getting to safety (which of course I fully support and wish everyone the best).
Also the "shock and awe" just isn't there. So CNN isn't interested (what's the line at the end of Network "don't forget to pause the war for commercial break") .
The reporting/coverage assets aren't in place. Most material is from social media. Almost everything is "can't be independently verified". My cynical view is that the media orgs don't want to lose Russian access. Vs say, covering Iraq/Afghanistan where they governments couldn't block them because they weren't (for all practical purposes) in country.
This war will be under reported. It is (again ignoring much nuance) a regional matter. It is yet another Syria/Yemen proxy war/sphere of influence operation between US/China/Russia (of course JSOC/SAS hasn't had people in country in Ukraine for weeks, if not they would be completely incompetent in my opinion).
The after the fact provision of serious firepower is appalling. The west essentially collectively decided to let Russia "shock and awe" happen and allow it to turn into a street by street battle (that's why we sent lots of riffles/ammo but no serious SAM,radar,intelligence etc assets that would have turned the tide in the first 90 minutes of the war) (If Russia had lost significant air assets , or if most of the missles had been laser eliminated , this would be an entirely different conflict).
Sorry to get so emotional/intense/political. I have strong thoughts on this subject. Peace through (non nuclear) deterrence is a thing. The west simply decided that the second largest country in Europe (Ukraine) would be a nice crumple zone for Russian ... misadventures.
"crumple zone" -- oof, ouch. That about sums it up. And is ... I'm not even sure if "infuriating" covers it.
I was talking this morning with someone who says that the young people she works with seem to get it far more than most adults, and we speculated that the adults are still assuming the major corporate media outlets are the places to go for the best coverage, whereas younger people are getting direct personal stories via social media. As you said: "The reporting/coverage assets aren't in place. Most material is from social media."
Their timeline summary of how the West has perceived events for the past couple decades versus how Russia has viewed them is very helpful, and the analysis feels pretty accurate to me.
Important post, Antonia. Thank you. For the most part, I agree that our capacity "for both compassion and cruelty come not from any religious root but from those very centuries of suffering." I'm reading about the Middle Ages right now, however, and a great deal of cruelty and compassion did come from organized religion—us versus them. Perhaps this is because people believed they had to fight for a cause more than they trusted the transforming kindness of faith. There is no them, only us.
Yes, I agree with you. Especially when reading of the centuries of religion-related wars, it's hard to let go of that influence. This book is a little slippery to summarize, I think because it might be meant for college classrooms with a more overview perspective. In that section he's specifically talking about Dostoevsky's and others' claim that it was Russian Orthodoxy itself that created the Russian character, whereas the history of that church (says Kustanovich) is not strong in any kind of pastoral care or teaching (priests don't generally give sermons, and observance is strong on ceremony while light on content).
I do wonder sometimes about religious wars what the everyday foot soldier thought when he was having to fight. We have so little of that perspective throughout history, only the sanctioned narratives.
"Not “the government is spying on everyone” but an actual, targeted, individual tap. On your phone. Listening to your own private conversations. Now we have end-to-end encryption for the masses, and still my cousin in Moscow publicly posts her love for Ukraine and outrageously courageous critiques, calls to resist. “I can’t seem to come to my senses,” she writes. “I am still trying to find bits of optimism in myself.”"
I feel obligated to speak anyway. Back during the Iraq war I got targeted by a tap on the plain old telephone because apparently, I kept shooting my mouth off in opposition. There have been a lot of difficult surveillance issues since then.
When I was a child there was my family, for a time, where I was the abused child and I had to not say anything about it, lest I get murdered for my trouble.
So I understand that guarded feeling.
elm
i feel it right now
I feel it right now, too, elm. And ... definitely, I have been in these positions, too. It changes you. Thank you for sharing 💕
🤍💛💙 Thanks for the like on Anne Helen's blog the other day.
In DC (or the vicinity) so one often has that creepy 'crosshairs between my shoulder blades' sensation if one is so venturesome to have 'wrong' opinions about foreign policy matters.
elm
my spidey sense has always served me well, especially when people tell me directly that i'm wrong
In the thick of it all, eh?
Yeah, I was. More peripheral now. (It's a multilayer issue.) Always an odd sensation when one strongly suspects the Russians are eyeballing one's minimal content, because why would they? But there it is (or was). (Shant wish to help them.)
Gets balanced or offset by all the people trying to find a way into talking people into killing the world.
elm
here we go ago
I think given the long history of spying in the USSR, and the pre-Soviet states of tsars, suspecting a Russian government of spying on one's personal life isn't actually an outlier feeling.
Heh. Oh, well, this is more being on political blogs, which involves the usual political suspects in the US, plus being doxxed, etc., followed by the usual unofficial official surveillance (all of this taking place over a decade+), and then on top of that merely having opinions (just like I am doing here), apparently & suddenly one has attracted attention from the usual & unusual foreign suspects. (Why would they care? You'd think they'd have better things to do, so damn if I know.)
At the moment, someone is apparently, but rather obviously, (presumably thanks to the miracle of speech recognition) been listening in on my cell. When I have the chance, I play them lots of music. Most people (in the US) are in total denial about this kind of thing, just like they've been in total denial about the fact that the RF has basically been in the position of holding a gun to UKR's head since the USSR became the XSSR. (One false move and the RF pulls the trigger, or in this case, just ups and decides they can get away with it.) Likewise a lot of people were somehow (?) convinced that there was no threat of nuclear war, never mind every power with the bomb hung onto their bombs and kept them serviced and ready to use at any old moment.
It's not a big deal (or shouldn't be, goes the theory) for one particular individual in a world of both commercial and government mass surveillance, but it invariably creeps me the fuck out.
elm
the intersection of my excellent survival instincts and my excellent sense of people with the very unpleasant people who wallow in the stuff
This was wonderful thoughtful and challenging. Some other stuff to read...ALL BY ITSELF makes this a wonderful place to read.
Thank you 💕💕💕 (I'm afraid that list can be a bit overwhelming sometimes, but I try to choose things that I think will appeal to at least one reader!)
This: "Poke back far enough and nearly everyone’s line has a history of suffering and oppression."
It speaks to our similarities rather than our differences. We've all been oppressed, we've all been the oppressor. That is the source from which compassion springs, if we let it.
"If we let it" is much of the key. So many use their own suffering as an excuse to inflict more on others. I keep going back to Rianne Eisler's book "Nurturing Our Humanity," and her point that authoritarianism cycles through society and home life -- people who grow up in authoritarian homes tend to support authoritarian society, and vice versa.
I'm hoping to have enough "if we let it" people in my day-to-day life to make it worthwhile, you know?
The only Eisler book I've ever read was "The Chalice and the Blade" and that was a loooong time ago.
I know 🧡
I still haven't read that, just kind of skipped to this more recent one! I heard a couple interviews with her about it and was impressed with the research in the book. Basically "we live in a domination paradigm both society-wide and in personal lives, but many societies in the past have lived in a partnership paradigm instead and we can get there again."
Thank you, Nia 🙏🏻❤️
Thanks for being here, Greg 🧡🧡🧡
I love that image. I don't think that I can share any of my pictures (or spill any ink, for that matter) publicly, either. There are 15 or so old pictures sitting by my couch right now. Some of them I love. Some of them are best kept as a reminder of lessons learned. Mostly, I don't think that the public commons needs any input from me. Some thoughts are best kept to the digital and actual front porch, so to speak.
I know what you mean. I'm hesitant about it all. What is there, after all, that can be said about war or hardship or oppression that's in any way a new observation? 🧡
And whatever there is to be said just doesn't need to be said by me, should I even have the thought to begin with. The world is overstocked with white guys bloviating from the middle of America.
Well -- true. I mean, I know what you mean. But what the world is not overstocked with is people drawing us back to compassion and humanity, which is different from high-profile punditry. We all have our roles, or at least a role in our own lives. In any case, I appreciate your perspective!
1) I wholly agree with you and B) for me, this is just a topic that I feel is best kept for personal conversations (which, frankly, I love to have).
Photo at the top is of the Church of the Transfiguration in Peredelkino just outside Moscow. Not sure if I'll share many more Russia photos but northwest Montana is like a vast ocean of gray and slush right now and even walking is blah.
"Half the city is fighting against the normalization of violence that is knocking on every door. War also tests us to see if we have even a touch of compassion for those sent here to murder.”"
It's very difficult.... I understand why one may well want to make Molotov cocktails and have a rifle close by.. ie https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/02/27/ukraine-conflict-tracking-use-of-cluster-munitions-in-civilian-areas/
I guess at it's most core, this is an issue of private property. Of wealth. Of something carved out. The deep seated desire to protect something/someones.
It is a very.... simplistic thing to say, but "the Russians started it" . They came into Ukraine. They launched a full scale invasion and hit civilian targets in the very first strike. It is despicable. I would argue it's not a "normalization of violence" , but rather a response to a horrible disruption.
I am horrified by the lack of leadership in the US and (most of) Europe. I will give major props to Mr Johnson and the UK parliament, showing true unity and leading out in front. The EU waited 72 hours to see if Ukraine had any resolve/resilience and then we saw the largest policy/spending shift in 75 years in a mere 72 hours. (I am also scared of any changes done during crisis as a general rule).
War on the continent.... absolutely horrid.
That last line: yes.
And by the way -- thank you! I have been feeling a bit frustrated at what feels like thin news reporting (aside from The Guardian, but their home page just might be better designed, giving me the impression of comprehensiveness). I was trying to think of who might be doing more reporting, and thought of Bellingcat but then forgot to go look.
I mean, I'd fight too. Aside from all the other issues, most people, I truly believe, don't want to live under a repressive authoritarian.
The brutal truth is that this war isn't..... "exciting". It's not good vs bad/west vs east. It's (in my opinion) a civil war (or a reverse civil war I guess? ). (To be clear I realize the russian/ukraine .... relationship is deeply nuanced and complicated and won't try todo it justice here).
The reporting has been pretty sparse indeed. I follow (almost exclusively) BBC and most of the reporting has been about staff migrating/getting to safety (which of course I fully support and wish everyone the best).
Also the "shock and awe" just isn't there. So CNN isn't interested (what's the line at the end of Network "don't forget to pause the war for commercial break") .
The reporting/coverage assets aren't in place. Most material is from social media. Almost everything is "can't be independently verified". My cynical view is that the media orgs don't want to lose Russian access. Vs say, covering Iraq/Afghanistan where they governments couldn't block them because they weren't (for all practical purposes) in country.
This war will be under reported. It is (again ignoring much nuance) a regional matter. It is yet another Syria/Yemen proxy war/sphere of influence operation between US/China/Russia (of course JSOC/SAS hasn't had people in country in Ukraine for weeks, if not they would be completely incompetent in my opinion).
The after the fact provision of serious firepower is appalling. The west essentially collectively decided to let Russia "shock and awe" happen and allow it to turn into a street by street battle (that's why we sent lots of riffles/ammo but no serious SAM,radar,intelligence etc assets that would have turned the tide in the first 90 minutes of the war) (If Russia had lost significant air assets , or if most of the missles had been laser eliminated , this would be an entirely different conflict).
Sorry to get so emotional/intense/political. I have strong thoughts on this subject. Peace through (non nuclear) deterrence is a thing. The west simply decided that the second largest country in Europe (Ukraine) would be a nice crumple zone for Russian ... misadventures.
"crumple zone" -- oof, ouch. That about sums it up. And is ... I'm not even sure if "infuriating" covers it.
I was talking this morning with someone who says that the young people she works with seem to get it far more than most adults, and we speculated that the adults are still assuming the major corporate media outlets are the places to go for the best coverage, whereas younger people are getting direct personal stories via social media. As you said: "The reporting/coverage assets aren't in place. Most material is from social media."
https://www.understandingwar.org/ has been a good source.
Their timeline summary of how the West has perceived events for the past couple decades versus how Russia has viewed them is very helpful, and the analysis feels pretty accurate to me.
Thank you!
On the lack of reporting...
"
Journalists in media don't buy what they are feeding ya
Depleting ya of truth because of influential groups
They don't wanna lose their access so they don't care what the facts is
Let alone reporting pieces they don't preach nor do they practice
Let the hackers be the source of breaking news by breaking in
To every system every outlet let me say it once again
So those hackers with the badges keep their jobs and stay employed
On that hacker war perpetual deep into the void
"
From https://genius.com/Ytcracker-hacker-wars-v20-lyrics (that just came up on shuffle and I was gonna go find it anyway to comment here).
Ha. A version of Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry" for a new generation. The "losing access" part has been deeply infuriating for years.