I read that MIT TR article thinking "this has to be an art piece. Definitely there will be a disclaimer at the end that this is just about getting us to think; no one would actually try to make this horrific tech." I am still waiting for that.
Oct 26, 2022·edited Oct 26, 2022Liked by Antonia Malchik
I shared this with my cousin, who was sitting reading her email in the same room. Her response amounted to: "We were so busy trying to figure out if we could, we didn't stop to figure out if we SHOULD." How is it we learned the wrong lessons from Jurassic Park? :p
Oct 26, 2022·edited Oct 26, 2022Liked by Antonia Malchik
I love how she acknowledged, like it was a small thing, how "some people" might see this as creepy, and how even some of her friends, when told about the article, physically recoiled. (Me too!) I wonder if this is a reasonable representation of how "most" people would feel about this kind of tech. I was pretty shocked at her casualness...but maybe I'm not in the mainstream in this way?
I think because it's a tech-oriented magazine, this kind of technology maybe isn't considered out of the norm. There are probably people in that sphere thinking about this kind of thing all the time. I heard an interview on Futures podcast about this kind of technology and the woman was very up-front about how she would love to talk to her deceased parents, etc. It's just a different worldview. I do get stuck on "doesn't this say a lot about how humans persist in trying to deny death?" but even more on "okay, but whose communities have to suffer because you need the rare minerals and energy to power this kind of technology? Has anyone thought about that?" I understand the desire not to let go of people we love - but *at whose expense* is where I always land.
Asking for "no ice please" in water at a restaurant feels like it's not something we should have to think of anymore! But we're still there. And it's so American!
This really tracks. Russian Orthodoxy is very strict but also extremely impersonal. It maintains a sense of mystery and the divine by, I think, sheer posturing and imagery. I've been to Orthodox churches in Russia many times and always feel it myself -- something entirely different from my Episcopal/Lutheran upbringing. Something uncaring and inaccessible but beautiful.
Combine that with white nationalism, which I think it does in Russia, and patriarchy, which is overt in the church, and you get plenty of attraction for American evangelicals who want to believe in some kind of divine ethno-nationalist/Christian nationalist purpose (or whatever).
It was really telling that when Paul Kingsnorth decided to convert to Christianity, he didn't choose something down-to-earth, not even the Church of England, but went straight for Eastern European Orthodoxy: aloof, patriarchal, hierarchical, saturated in ritual, and able to perpetuate a faith that there is a higher, purer truth if only we're devout enough.
I have been trying (offhandedly, whenever I read his current work) to understand Kingsnorth's particular choice. Conversion isn't necessarily a "choice," in the way we usually think of that, as a rationally decided thing, but denomination? That's a choice. I feel a piece of the puzzle slotting into place.
Yeah, that's the thing that caught my attention right away when it happened -- being attracted to the sect most overtly about hierarchy, patriarchy, and pageantry/ritual.
"And somehow I still have to drag myself out on a regular basis, prove to myself once again its potential for knitting good back into our lives."
I gotta throw the ball for the dog. Of course, I have to commence climbing under that truck and perform many arcane procedures to make it a good truck again.
"One of the other books I finished was Orlando Figes’s new book The Story of Russia."
Do I have that one? I don't think I have that one. I've the Crimean War one and the gulag one and ... another one ['Revolutionary Russia'] but I don't think that one.
"“The tsar’s authority was founded on the myth of his divine status as an agent of God’s rule in Holy Russia, the last surviving seat of the true Orthodox faith in the Third Rome anthology."
See, Snyder wrote a long post last week about Putin's claims to the Crimea but he didn't bring up the thing with Holy Mother Russia supposedly being the Third Rome. Putin doesn't seem to bring it up either, which is a little odd, given all the lunatic nationalist spew Dugin cranks out. I would expect that declaring that Russia should march down and re-conquer Constantinople (along with reclaiming control of Exarchate*) might be a bridge too far, as I do not think the Turks would like it, nor NATO, but it seems like just the thing for lunatic Russian nationalists to yell about.
I am thinking that the various lunatic right-wing factions that are the core of Putin's support are divided about which national mythology to embrace. Heirs to the authoritarianism of a Communist Party set to liberate the world from the evils of capitalism? Heirs to the Russians (rudely: 'hiwis') who lined up with Hitler to liberate the Motherland from the Judeo-Bolshevik menace? Restorationists of, I dunno, Alexander and the brutality of the Tsarist Cossack regime? Or dedicated Orthodoxers ready to restore the Christian purity via the God-ordained rule of the commander of the Vicar of Christ on earth the sorta-holy Tsar? Maybe the pagan roots of Russia as hardened Old Believer steppe warriors, ready to off anybody who looks at them funny? ('The newest scent from Cote: Touch of Mongolian!')
They (the propagandists) can't seem to make up their minds, so it's all blenderized together. In using that methodology, Putin and his lot do seem to have adopted Steve Bannon Thought, in that one week the alt-right are crazed QAnoners, and the next week they're extolling the virtues of Nazism, and then it's on to the cop-sucking.
"The theft of Crimea in 2014 wasn’t the first battle over that territory Russia has had, and the country’s view of itself as a Euro-Asian empire is something that few even in the intelligentsia understand."
Empire of all the Russias/Soviet Union/Russian Federation were/are ALL Asian imperial states. Dunno how someone who knew anything about it wouldn't understand that?
"“Are we ready?” she asks. (NO.)"
I have them stored in my head, dunno how this would be an improvement. (Yet another variant on sexbots.)
"(I’ve been trying to maintain some sympathy for this desire for after-life interaction. After all, my older sister is not the only person horrified that I burn all of my personal journals in the hottest fires I can build.)"
The walls have ears. Yeah, I torched some crappy stuff I wrote down just a little while ago (and kept the stuff that only sucked a little). I am totally with you on this.
Also: would be really interesting to see the ancient Old Believer schism start boiling up through all of this. There are still a lot of them around! (I tried to go to an Old Believer church once but it was one of the days I'd forgotten to wear a skirt -- I always cover my hair in Orthodox churches; should have realized an Old Believer church would be even more strict.)
Glad I'm not the only one who's okay burning some crap!
You know, I had a paragraph in there about Figes's bare mention of Russia's colonization throughout Siberia, but it felt like a thread too much so I took it out. But I am really grateful you brought it up because when I read it in that book, my first thought was, "Why does there seem to be nothing written about the colonization of these vast lands -- which was probably brutal and which has smothered so much culture and life ways and people under the banner of some mythical "Holy Rus'?" And the people whose lands and lives have been colonized are of course the first ones being told to pay in blood for Putin's war.
That author is the same person who wrote "Leningrad" about the Siege of Leningrad, which was excellent.
("The Story of Russia" just came out, so you might not have come across it yet.)
As for which nationalist mythology to embrace, that's a great question. Figes did a good job, I thought, of showing how the early mythology of how Kievan Rus was founded (by some sort of "chosen people" Viking brothers) and how Prince Vladimir's conversion to Orthodoxy morphed over the centuries into different nationalist ideologies but with the same basic structures: the need for an authoritarian leader, Russia as the savior of civilization and Christianity, and the European West as an ungrateful and threatening presence and force. My feeling is that Putin can use any or all of them by taking the emotional core of the mythologies to build nationalist pride, with himself as the little father-tsar. The specifics don't necessarily matter as long as the propaganda works.
It's so curious to me how many of the things we love and that are good for us we let slide and slide until suddenly we are crabby because we haven't been doing them. Walking is such an activity for me too! I'm reminded of that right now, in fact, sitting at my desk, looking out at the chilly gray outdoors and feeling them calling to me. This is the weather I have been waiting for!
I do appreciate the shout-outs, especially for the poem. You are so very kind to me, Antonia. Isn't it wonderful how we've been able to walk together in person a time or two?
It will always baffle me how hard it is to make ourselves do the things that we know make us feel better. Or at least for me. "Do the thing!" "Nah, I think I'll just eat potato chips and watch something stupid on Netflix." Why???
Having walks with you has been one of the best things of my past few months 🧡 It inspires me to do more of it.
A lovely memory because I hear it in my dads voice. He read the books to my mother and me when I was small.
As to why it’s so hard to get ourselves to do it now makes us feel better and so easy not to - that’s $1 million question. It’s amazing to me how sometimes I just have to drag myself out of bed and into the car to go to the lake when I always feel better for having gone.
I read that MIT TR article thinking "this has to be an art piece. Definitely there will be a disclaimer at the end that this is just about getting us to think; no one would actually try to make this horrific tech." I am still waiting for that.
Yeah ... me too :(
Way too many tech articles hit in that way. "Surely nobody is going to develop this without thinking about the bigger implications ... anybody?" Nope.
I shared this with my cousin, who was sitting reading her email in the same room. Her response amounted to: "We were so busy trying to figure out if we could, we didn't stop to figure out if we SHOULD." How is it we learned the wrong lessons from Jurassic Park? :p
ALL the wrong lessons!
I love how she acknowledged, like it was a small thing, how "some people" might see this as creepy, and how even some of her friends, when told about the article, physically recoiled. (Me too!) I wonder if this is a reasonable representation of how "most" people would feel about this kind of tech. I was pretty shocked at her casualness...but maybe I'm not in the mainstream in this way?
I think because it's a tech-oriented magazine, this kind of technology maybe isn't considered out of the norm. There are probably people in that sphere thinking about this kind of thing all the time. I heard an interview on Futures podcast about this kind of technology and the woman was very up-front about how she would love to talk to her deceased parents, etc. It's just a different worldview. I do get stuck on "doesn't this say a lot about how humans persist in trying to deny death?" but even more on "okay, but whose communities have to suffer because you need the rare minerals and energy to power this kind of technology? Has anyone thought about that?" I understand the desire not to let go of people we love - but *at whose expense* is where I always land.
"At whose expense" is a great addition to this!
That's kind of where my brain lives these days -- "interesting/great/sympathetic idea ... at whose expense?!"
Also on ice in drinks - I don’t like it! And everyone wants to put ice in my drinks!
Asking for "no ice please" in water at a restaurant feels like it's not something we should have to think of anymore! But we're still there. And it's so American!
The ROC attracts the MAGA devout.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1096741988/orthodox-christian-churches-are-drawing-in-far-right-american-converts?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1C0SZrHihzJrGUY5jMUZvk_oyApZB_xm2MLup-VLLD8s8kJNX3it1UVlM
This really tracks. Russian Orthodoxy is very strict but also extremely impersonal. It maintains a sense of mystery and the divine by, I think, sheer posturing and imagery. I've been to Orthodox churches in Russia many times and always feel it myself -- something entirely different from my Episcopal/Lutheran upbringing. Something uncaring and inaccessible but beautiful.
Combine that with white nationalism, which I think it does in Russia, and patriarchy, which is overt in the church, and you get plenty of attraction for American evangelicals who want to believe in some kind of divine ethno-nationalist/Christian nationalist purpose (or whatever).
It was really telling that when Paul Kingsnorth decided to convert to Christianity, he didn't choose something down-to-earth, not even the Church of England, but went straight for Eastern European Orthodoxy: aloof, patriarchal, hierarchical, saturated in ritual, and able to perpetuate a faith that there is a higher, purer truth if only we're devout enough.
I have been trying (offhandedly, whenever I read his current work) to understand Kingsnorth's particular choice. Conversion isn't necessarily a "choice," in the way we usually think of that, as a rationally decided thing, but denomination? That's a choice. I feel a piece of the puzzle slotting into place.
Yeah, that's the thing that caught my attention right away when it happened -- being attracted to the sect most overtly about hierarchy, patriarchy, and pageantry/ritual.
Putin really digs the Tzar as the hand of god vibe too.
"And somehow I still have to drag myself out on a regular basis, prove to myself once again its potential for knitting good back into our lives."
I gotta throw the ball for the dog. Of course, I have to commence climbing under that truck and perform many arcane procedures to make it a good truck again.
"One of the other books I finished was Orlando Figes’s new book The Story of Russia."
Do I have that one? I don't think I have that one. I've the Crimean War one and the gulag one and ... another one ['Revolutionary Russia'] but I don't think that one.
"“The tsar’s authority was founded on the myth of his divine status as an agent of God’s rule in Holy Russia, the last surviving seat of the true Orthodox faith in the Third Rome anthology."
See, Snyder wrote a long post last week about Putin's claims to the Crimea but he didn't bring up the thing with Holy Mother Russia supposedly being the Third Rome. Putin doesn't seem to bring it up either, which is a little odd, given all the lunatic nationalist spew Dugin cranks out. I would expect that declaring that Russia should march down and re-conquer Constantinople (along with reclaiming control of Exarchate*) might be a bridge too far, as I do not think the Turks would like it, nor NATO, but it seems like just the thing for lunatic Russian nationalists to yell about.
I am thinking that the various lunatic right-wing factions that are the core of Putin's support are divided about which national mythology to embrace. Heirs to the authoritarianism of a Communist Party set to liberate the world from the evils of capitalism? Heirs to the Russians (rudely: 'hiwis') who lined up with Hitler to liberate the Motherland from the Judeo-Bolshevik menace? Restorationists of, I dunno, Alexander and the brutality of the Tsarist Cossack regime? Or dedicated Orthodoxers ready to restore the Christian purity via the God-ordained rule of the commander of the Vicar of Christ on earth the sorta-holy Tsar? Maybe the pagan roots of Russia as hardened Old Believer steppe warriors, ready to off anybody who looks at them funny? ('The newest scent from Cote: Touch of Mongolian!')
They (the propagandists) can't seem to make up their minds, so it's all blenderized together. In using that methodology, Putin and his lot do seem to have adopted Steve Bannon Thought, in that one week the alt-right are crazed QAnoners, and the next week they're extolling the virtues of Nazism, and then it's on to the cop-sucking.
"The theft of Crimea in 2014 wasn’t the first battle over that territory Russia has had, and the country’s view of itself as a Euro-Asian empire is something that few even in the intelligentsia understand."
Ooh: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7395289-empires-apart
And especially if you haven't read it (the Native Siberians got the same raw deal Native Americans got): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/267747.The_Shaman_s_Coat
Empire of all the Russias/Soviet Union/Russian Federation were/are ALL Asian imperial states. Dunno how someone who knew anything about it wouldn't understand that?
"“Are we ready?” she asks. (NO.)"
I have them stored in my head, dunno how this would be an improvement. (Yet another variant on sexbots.)
"(I’ve been trying to maintain some sympathy for this desire for after-life interaction. After all, my older sister is not the only person horrified that I burn all of my personal journals in the hottest fires I can build.)"
The walls have ears. Yeah, I torched some crappy stuff I wrote down just a little while ago (and kept the stuff that only sucked a little). I am totally with you on this.
elm
no, you nosy bastards you can't have that
Also: would be really interesting to see the ancient Old Believer schism start boiling up through all of this. There are still a lot of them around! (I tried to go to an Old Believer church once but it was one of the days I'd forgotten to wear a skirt -- I always cover my hair in Orthodox churches; should have realized an Old Believer church would be even more strict.)
Glad I'm not the only one who's okay burning some crap!
You know, I had a paragraph in there about Figes's bare mention of Russia's colonization throughout Siberia, but it felt like a thread too much so I took it out. But I am really grateful you brought it up because when I read it in that book, my first thought was, "Why does there seem to be nothing written about the colonization of these vast lands -- which was probably brutal and which has smothered so much culture and life ways and people under the banner of some mythical "Holy Rus'?" And the people whose lands and lives have been colonized are of course the first ones being told to pay in blood for Putin's war.
That author is the same person who wrote "Leningrad" about the Siege of Leningrad, which was excellent.
("The Story of Russia" just came out, so you might not have come across it yet.)
As for which nationalist mythology to embrace, that's a great question. Figes did a good job, I thought, of showing how the early mythology of how Kievan Rus was founded (by some sort of "chosen people" Viking brothers) and how Prince Vladimir's conversion to Orthodoxy morphed over the centuries into different nationalist ideologies but with the same basic structures: the need for an authoritarian leader, Russia as the savior of civilization and Christianity, and the European West as an ungrateful and threatening presence and force. My feeling is that Putin can use any or all of them by taking the emotional core of the mythologies to build nationalist pride, with himself as the little father-tsar. The specifics don't necessarily matter as long as the propaganda works.
It's so curious to me how many of the things we love and that are good for us we let slide and slide until suddenly we are crabby because we haven't been doing them. Walking is such an activity for me too! I'm reminded of that right now, in fact, sitting at my desk, looking out at the chilly gray outdoors and feeling them calling to me. This is the weather I have been waiting for!
I do appreciate the shout-outs, especially for the poem. You are so very kind to me, Antonia. Isn't it wonderful how we've been able to walk together in person a time or two?
It will always baffle me how hard it is to make ourselves do the things that we know make us feel better. Or at least for me. "Do the thing!" "Nah, I think I'll just eat potato chips and watch something stupid on Netflix." Why???
Having walks with you has been one of the best things of my past few months 🧡 It inspires me to do more of it.
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began....
"Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with weary feet,
Until it joins some larger way"
Gah! Love that so much 💓
“Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.”
A lovely memory because I hear it in my dads voice. He read the books to my mother and me when I was small.
As to why it’s so hard to get ourselves to do it now makes us feel better and so easy not to - that’s $1 million question. It’s amazing to me how sometimes I just have to drag myself out of bed and into the car to go to the lake when I always feel better for having gone.
How lovely! I can imagine that being a powerful memory, especially all the songs and poetry. (Tom Bombadil!)
Maybe someday humanity will figure this out and we'll just *do* the healthy things.